unconscious with a crowbar. >> a seattle cop hoping to coax a last confession from a serial killer just days from the electric chair. i don't know if she was unconscious. she was very much alive. >> instead, he hears the secret story and primal thoughts that turn theodore robert cowell into ted bundy. >> when and where was your first murder? >> you know what's going to happen if this goes public? if all we did is hit the whos and the when and the body count. >> hi i'm jeff rossen and you're about to watch a game of cat and mouse. can a detective get notorious serial killer ted bundy to spill his final dark secrets?

can bundy delay the inevitable? his own execution. in this episode of maximum drama, you sit across from bundy and see for yourself. here's act one of our feature, the ted bundy death row tapes. >> it's january 1989 and the clock is ticking on the life of serial killer ted bundy. he is seven days away from execution execution. florida authorities are not going to allow him to avoid the electric chair again. >> first of all, ted bundy, seven days is an awful short time for a death warrant. why is that? >> it's almost 11 years since the crime was commit sod i don't consider it to be short at all. i believe the death warrant was properly signed and that justice needs to prevail, and it should take place next tuesday. >> bundy was convicted of killing two college students and a 12-year-old girl in florida.

now police investigators are trying to get bundy to admit he also killed dozens of other women in a multiyear cross country rampage. one of those investigators is former seattle detective bob kebel, who has been hunting bundy for more than a decade. now keppel wants to know what bundy is willing to say about other women. make no bones about it, i am looking for an opportunity to tell the story the best i can. in a way that makes sense to me and in a way it will help not just you or the families but also to help my own family. >>

i'm not trying to convince you, bob, that you should be interested in the whys. i know i am. i think a lot of people are interested in why. people constantly will ask me "why?" >> a lot of people are interested, asked why he did what he did. i wanted to find out as much detailed information as i could rather than that. he could have said anything. >> let me start with one. let me start with this one. the unidentified remains, this is where i'm a little bit -- it's a lit bit unnerving. some of this stuff i don't mind talking about. i can write it down. i just don't want the police getting any kind of names at this point. >> he didn't want anybody to know who he was talking about. so his idea would be the best thing would be for him to write down the name and he would show

it to me. >> and then i'll write the name down for you. >> all right. the name that i just wrote down was george ann hawkins. can you hear that? okay, i just wrote, like i said that hawkin's girl head was severed and taken up the road about 25 to 50 yards and buried west of the hillside. did you hear that?

>> yeah, he drew a map as to where her skull might be found. it was as though he buried it. but we never found the skull.

>> the interest that he had in telling us about georgeann hawkins, he had a lot of detail about her because i believe that he wanted to give us detail about her.

coming up after 15 years of chasing him, investigator bob keppel is about to hear ted bundy describe for the first time how he killed one of his victims. >> i knocked her unconscious and strangled her. if you think running a restaurant is hard try running four. fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase.

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with his execution days away serial killer ted bundy is about the to confess to the a crime, the killing of university student georgeann hawkins. seattle investigator bob keppel who has been chasing bundy for 15 years sits with the killer on florida's death row, recording the conversation. >> up the hill. down the road and to the grassy area.

>> to hear him talk in detail about the ride out to the crime scene, that was something that only the killer would know.

-- -- i was in a sheer state of panic, just absolute horror at that point in time the consciousness of what has really happened is like you break out of a fever or something, i would. and so i drove east on 90. at some point throwing articles out the window as i wept. articles of clothing. shoes, et cetera. >> did you remove those? >> what? >> the clothing. >> well after we got out of the car, initially. well, i skipped over some stuff there, and we'll have to get back to it some time. it's just too hard for me to talk about right now. >> did you throw away something

else then? >> sure, yeah. i threw away the crowbar and everything handcuffs, everything. i get mad at myself a few weeks later because i would have to go out and buy another pair. it's not comical. >> no that you've had a while to think about georgeann hawkins is there something that you can talk about her that probably only you know and we know. >> well, she said everybody called her george. that's what she said. or how about that she used a safety pin because apparently her blue slacks were a little bit too big. >> when you look at her name pinned up pants, those were things that only the killer would know. >> we want to check out to make sure nothing had been left there. i half expected she might not be there, that somehow that had not killed her. i can't remember if i found anything there or not. i want to make sure oh that's what it was.

talk about details coming back. i couldn't find one of the shoes. so i thought it was there. but it wasn't. so i went back -- this is the next day. got on my bicycle. road back to that little parking lot. i knew there were police all over the place by that time but i was kind of nervous, and i'll tell you why in a minute. i went back to that parking lot. i found pierced earrings and the shoe laying in the parking lot at about 5:00 in the afternoon. i handed them out and road off. >> were the police there? >> you tell me. they couldn't have looked in the parking lot and missed the white panel, the clothe and the two white pierced earrings. blue hoops. the reason i was so nervous about anything like that being found in that parking lot was no more than two weeks before i had been using the same -- in the

same neighborhood. in front of the same sorority house she appeared from. i encounterred her going out the door. i was drunk and i told her i worked at olympia. i was horrified later on. got all the way to the car and said no, i don't want to do it. thank you. see you later. she walked away. but after i was paranoid as hell saying something weird happened to me a couple of weeks ago. this guy came along crutches. asked me to help him. how many people could that apply to? so there you are. >> i wanted to get as much out of him as i could. i was ready for him to stay alive. >> what's the attorney general of washington going to do? >> going to do? >> anything? >> what was the attorney general these days? >> he was wondering if i could do anything to help stay his

execution. i said oh yes i could. but i knew i couldn't. >> bundy realizes this may be the last time he talks to bob keppel and he makes one last plea for his execution to be delayed so he can tell keppel more. >> we've accomplished something here, but i don't feel like we've really joined heads on this thing. i don't know what you want to do. i know you've been on this case, so to speak, the bundy case for a long time. i know you must have some deep feelings about it. i don't want to make too many assumptions. here's what it comes down to to me, i want the truth, the truth that's going to be helpful to you. but the broader truth that has a wider application. that's the bottom line. there's just no way it could be done under these circumstances with this amount of time and that's the way it is. i'm not holding you hostage. if you don't want to do anything with it you're free to walk

away. if you can put your heads together with these other law enforcement people and think of any way. i'm not asking for clemency. i'm not asking to get off. i'm not asking for sympathy. but i draw the line. we need a period of time. 60, 90 days. systematically going over it with everybody. bottom to top, everything i can think of. get it all down. you can use it as you see fit. i will not put myself in the position of giving it all away and not getting the kind of result that i think -- from my people. and bob, they're going to get me sooner or later. you don't need to worry about that. but you've been after this for 15 years. a couple months is not going to make any difference. >> coming up we go back ten years to hear ted bundy say in another interview that he often

debated with himself about whether to kill. >> it was a challenge to determine whether or not you would actually kill the girl. power the holidays with verizon. this monday online only. get the droid razr by motorola in cranberry, free. or a white 7-inch samsung galaxy tab 2 just $99.99. this holiday, get the best deals on the best devices on the best network. exclusively at verizon. ♪ ♪ i'd like to thank eating right, whole grain, multigrain cheerios! mom, are those my jeans? [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios

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it's sunday evening, january 22nd 1989 florida's prison. inside serial killer ted bundy is less than 48 hours away from execution. convicted of killing a 12-year-old girl and two college students in a sororith house in ohio state university bundy is a suspect in a dozen other disappearances across the united states. seattle investigator bob keppel has spent years attempting to pry information out of bundy, a former law student known for his intelligence and knowledge of how to play the legal system. >> yeah i know more about it.

my class is graduating about a month from law school. >> now at the 11th hour, as he's done several times before bundy says he'll talk. but investigators wonder if it's just another one of his games of cat and mouse. a game that he's been playing for nearly ten years. >> ted bundy first came to my attention in 1979 when i was working for "business week" magazine in new york. my agent called me up and asked me if i knew anything about this serial killer who was being tried down in florida. and in fact i knew nothing about ted. his fame had not spread to new york at that time. so i went down to florida. he was in the miami city jail on trial for the killing. i asked him what he wanted to get out of this deal and he said, well i'm innocent and i think that if i did a book it would be a benefit to law enforcement.

how an innocent man can be caught up in this web of deceit and lies and misinformation. >> well, listen i've been kept in isolation for six months. i've been kept away from the press. i've been buried by you. you've been talking for six months. i think it's my turn now. >> i said well ted, what i'm interested in is you telling me the truth. he said oh yeah i'll tell you the truth. the deal we struck is my partner would go west and reinvestigate all the cases against bundy, and i would babysit bundy in florida. i would sit through his trial, and that's the way that it began. >> so where we are we? >> bundy took the witness stand wearing a port coat and a seattle mariner t-shirt. >> it was interesting to meet

him because ted was so clever in a way that i was very unfamiliar. when i got started with ted, i said, okay let's take it from the top. let's go through your life. very quickly it was clear that ted taught of this as kind of a celebrity bio. that you know, he's ted bundy, the cover boy. >> for much of their conversation bundy talks in circles. >> i didn't really have any leverage with him. because he had all the knowledge in his head. and so for quite a bit of this one night i have an epiphany, if you will in this miserable hotel room i heard a playback how ted was described by everybody as boyish ch boyishly handsome boyish demeanor. and the more i thought about it the more it occurred to me that

he wasn't just boyish but he was a boy. he seemed to be about 12 years old. so i said to myself, how do you deal with a 12-year-old whose got some really awful secrets that you want to get at. not having any better ideas, i went into prison and i said, ted, you have a unique position. not only as the defendant and the suspected in the case. you're familiar with all the facts. you're a psychology student. you're a student of the human mind, and you know more about this story than anybody knows. so why don't you tell me what you think happened. how does a person become a serial killer? and he grabbed the tape recorder out of my hand and pulled it near his chin and started looking down into it and closed his eyes and started telling the story. >> coming up ted bundy tells steven what it takes to become a serial killer. >> since it's based on opportunity, it's a relatively

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. i'm milissa rehberger, here's what's happening. researchers are turning their hopes and dreams to cyber monday. experts predict we'll spend $1.5 million online tomorrow. you may want to pick up a power ball too. no one hit the lotto. so it's now up to $425 million. you can't always get what you want, still the rolling stones showed no marks of slowing down as they mark their 50th anniversary tonight in london. you can learn more about every documentary we run by going online to docs.msnbc.com. you'll find web extras and you can click on schedule for a complete listing and description of every doc, plus a video preview clip so you can check out any titles that catch your

eye. now back to our maximum drama feature, the ted bundy death row tapes. serial killer ted bundy spent most of his life in the pacific northwest. specifically tacoma and seattle. many of his knownducted in the early to mid 1970s near the university of washington. he would knock out the girls, drive them outside of to town to the mountains east of the city where he would rape them and them kill them. >> ted was a socio path or psycho path. and the psycho pathic mind looks at interpersonal relationships differently than do the rest of

us. all relationships are on a power grid and all you're doing when enaking with other people is get over on them. you're trying to establish you're in control of the situation. >> when you're being manipulated by one of these guys especially if you're unfamiliar with it you make mistakes. one of my earliest mistakes was to be incapable of understanding that bundy not only was a killer, but he really enjoyed being a killer. it was his life. it was the center of his being. and everything else as this developed in his life was put into place to support what he called the entity the part of him that was disordered if you will. ted conceived of himself, as he

told me as being 99% normal and just having this little sliver where he liked to go out and bash girls over the head. >> when we got into stuff that was intimate about the entity ted often took the recorder and sort of left me to watch. >> one time we were talking about how the entity functioned

in a high publicity mode. so he's driving around the one one day and he sees a girl hitchhiking. again, this is bundy telling me the story. >> though bundy talks a lot, he never refers to himself in first person instead he only talks about a killer and never gives him a name. attractive young girl hitchhiking. they got very drunk. >> this sounds really weird, but it's true. there were a couple of occasions when he would go off into one of

these states and we would call it a trance or something, he would be talking, and a welt would form right across his left cheek, and it would go across and it was pure white, and then when he would put down the tape recorder and light a cigarette or something, it would slowly kind of fade away and it was like this stig mata. >> when morning came around and dressed and he took the girl back to the area where he lived, he felt as if he had accomplished something. he could see in hindsight the only reason he hadn't killed the girl that condition, that sbe ty entity, that disorder was not active, aroused. >> the cases we discussed always ended in murder. the cases we discussed were cases i already knew about. i knew something about how the girl disappeared. i now something about how she was found. >> he was especially interested

in georgeann hawkins. her disappearance in 1974 would come up again and again. >> georgeann hawkins was last seen monday evening shortly after midnight. she was returning to her house just a half block away down the alley. police believe she went along this route, and then somewhere she disappeared.

you don't feel that you're in a position to distinguish that one way or another. >> we can sit here and we can say we expect this to happen and that to happen. but in the case of hawkins, it just doesn't fit. >> it sure doesn't. >> it does and it doesn't, i guess, but so many other things fit, where do you talk the line? >> though bundy never talks in first person about crimes he may have committed, he has no problem talking about how someone else may be a successful serial killer. >> if you think about a situation that a person like that finds himself in what is he going to do with it? i deally he would have an incinerator in the basement and there wouldn't be any problem at all in that respect. >> and he never wastes an opportunity to turn on the charm, even telling micho that

the author may have what it takes to be just like him. >> i think with enough study and interest that you do become a fairly effective mass murder. that anybody has the capacity and the ability studying the cases that it takes a great deal of nature and thought to do it. the very nature of the crime since it's based on opportunity it's a relatively easy crime to get away with. >> coming up as the seattle area deals with another string of unsolved murders, police receive a letter from florida's death row. ted bundy says he knows how to catch the killer. hmm, we need a new game.ttxwlun+og#wvs#q)p0á)uog5u,qcf;uñ"h/aboczb÷avzç.%";k0/ vdo4 tt>fb@uao0 than a full size sheet of the leading ordinary brand.tt>f#@ad't?/iárrxúl[8(!4mhbl +rp use less. with the small but

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>> a production note about our story featured in this episode

of "maximum drama." film maker tom jennings was looking for a fresh way to tell an old story. he found it in detective robert keppel's basement. 20 hours of ted bundy recordings, virtually untouched for 30 years. there at the heart of the story you're watching right now. >> in 1982 seattle again witnesses the disappearances and deaths of dozens of young women. seattle investigator bob keppel who had worked on the ted bundy task force is again searching for clues in the rugged wilderness around the city. >> with us this morning from our affiliate king in seattle is bob kep l, the cheaf keppel, the chief detective on the ted bundy case. now that you know something about these serial murders, does it help you find the next one, or does it just illustrate why

it's so hard to find and stop these people? >> one of the problems is police departments don't recognize enough the serial. and we been guilty for years of not communicating to each other well enough. >> i think there was an element of people thinking deja vu all over again. because within the first week there were five bodies found in or on the green river. >> once the killing started, keppel and other members of the green river task force receive a strange offer of help ted bundy, who was sitting on florida's death rosé he could help police find the killer. >> we wanted to make sure that he was never tipped off about the real reason that we were there to talk to him. the whole idea was to get him talking about green river and what he would say is basically what he was doing as a killer. >> this is a tape recorded interview between bob keppel and

ted bundy. the date is 11-17 of '84. one of the things that piqued my interest was the more specific things about dump sites. obviously you might have some special knowledge that you think may assist us in that area. >> well first of all, i tried to dispose the bodies where they won't be found. this guy doesn't want to get caught. i think over time he is trying to improve his dump sites. he's trying the to get better at disposing of the bodies. >> and i bet you he's getting nervous. i see the dates found these really quickly. and see, it changes. they're not obviously going to use the green river anymore. at least not for a while. he looks for something more effective and he goes back to dry land.

>> you got to figure that a guy like bundy has been talked to many, many many times. there's a good chance as clever and as smart as he was that he may pick up on the fact that we would ask him questions that only ted bundy the killer would know. >> let's say he's continuing to kill. >> okay. >> still in the seattle area. we found these locations out here. what would his next step be? >> who knows? this guy is trying to find the best way that you can think of. >> he does. there's a high probability he would return them. and check the dump sites. >> that's the problem. >> i think that he was of the belief that we couldn't draw anything out of it. he wanted to be kingpin, tough guy, i'll answer the questions. he was always talking with us like he was in control.

but he was in fact talking with a -- over his eyes. we asked him what we could do as investigators to help identify potential suspects and that's when he brought up the slasher film festival. >> it's obviously a link between sex and violence. i think it's easy to say he can find ways of vicariously experiencing the thing that gets him off. which in this case is killing the women. i think there's an excellent chance that one way he gets off is by going to what hay call a slasher film. and i know this sounds weird what i would do if i was trying to bring this guy to me i would try the bloodiest coolest slasher movie out there that has never been shown. a really vivid, lurid sex and murder kind of flick.

>> the investigators decide to go for broke. what they really want bundy to do is talk about his involvement in his own crimes. >> >> yes, i can see myself talking to you some time in the future. >> how about within the next two or three hours? >> nice try. i'd certainly like to be of help. >> bundy doesn't tell. instead he continues to lead investigators down dead ends. keppel leaves florida thinking he would never see bundy again. you don't have to answer this question if you don't want to. but if and when ted is finally executed what would your feelings be? >> i don't know what they would be right now. i'll tell you more about that when it happens. >> but four years later keppel returns.

bundy is still on death row. keppel wonders if he can finally get bundy to admit to something. keppel visits the prison unannounced. this time keppel doesn't want to talk about the green river killer. he wants to talk about ted bundy. >> he didn't know why i was there. the only reason i was there was to talk to him. i didn't have a reason. other than that. >> how does the detective talk to somebody without judging them? >> that's hard. that's very hard. the scary think thing is you have to have real empathy. real. not phony. not calling him by his first name and giving him a cup of coffee and cigarette and going through the standard procedure of putting the guy at ease, which is important. they have a particular view of the world that you have to

discover. why does this one guy, for example, not want to talk about the 12 and 13-year-olds he killed and he may have killed a dozen. but he'll talk about all the prast prostitutes he killed. his particular morality of murder is he could talk about some but not others. he could tell you the truth about some but not others. >> his morality of murder was that it was okay to kill. >> because the system as it stands now is really not getting at the truth, what motivation would there be for someone in that position to talk to you? to talk to anyone? >> what about somebody like yourself that is obviously a student student at the game here? you admitted you really like talking to other people about this stuff. you obviously like talking to me about it otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. >> well, for me, i do enjoy it.

the interest ebbs and flows. sometimes i'm more interested talking about it than others. it's certainly not something i'd rather do than anything else. if i had a choice i'd rather be outside running around in the sunshine. coming up, seattle detective bob keppel has one last chance to get information out of the nation's most notorious serial killer, ted bundy. >> when and where was your first murder? fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase.

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i'm jeff rossen. >> one of the things to be made clear here to law enforcement, which i think they realize, is that you don't negotiate with a killer. he certainly could have come clean and now all of a sudden he wants to tell the truth. therefore, it's a public statement in response to inquiries that we are not considering that request. >> every news agency in the world knew tuesday morning was it. >> it's less than two days before bundy's scheduled execution. keppel interviews bundy for two hour. he is one of the last members of law enforcement to sit down with the killer. in the end, bundy admits to killing more than a dozen additional women and gives police leads on a dozen more. >> sunday was my last time to talk to him. so i went in for my two-hour

session. he was exhausted. he was out of it. and i was pushing him. hard. >> the only thing that we could possibly cover that may add to some of the answers is a location of donna manson because she's the one that's missing and we never found anything we think is her at all. >> she went p missing on march 12th 1974 around the time that bundy first went on his killing spree. >> there's a quarter sectional marker right here. most of what we found was right in here and all you could find was hair skull, jawbone, jawbone. we never found any bones. now, are those bodies buried out there someplace? or are they someplace elsewhere no one's ever found them?

>> i won't beat around the bush. i'm just tired and i just want to get back to sleep. >> okay. >> so let me just say the head however the skull it won't be there. >> where is it? >> it's nowhere. >> it's nowhere? >> it's in a category p all by itself. >> there's not going to be any details. i've got parents out there that don't want to know the details. >> it was incinerated. >> it was incinerated? >> it was incinerated. >> where was your incinerator? come on partner. these are things i don't know about you. >> yes thrk is probably -- the people that get away with it it's the most bizarre thing i've ever been associated with. >> really? tell me about it.

what the h echl lell happened? >> in the fireplace. >> burned it all up? >> down to the last ash. >> paranoia and vacuumed out all of the ashes. >> that's a twist. >> yes that's a slight twist. >> this may have been bundy's last chance to tell the truth but detective keppel didn't buy it. >> have you ever burned a skull before? well, my problem with it is, i don't think he he could. i was anxious for him to tell me more in those last two hours. i wanted to see if he would screw up make a mistake, tell me something i didn't suspect him of. but he held out. i will say that about him, he held out. >> i'd like to ask one last question. >> go for it. >> one last one. when and where were your first murder? >> one more question. we'll have to do that some other

time. >> there is no other time. >> he was at once bright, articulate, and a monster. he confessed to murdering more than 20 young women and he was a suspect in several more killings but only at the end deid he talk freely about his behavior. >> i went home on monday. i figured it wasn't worth me being there. i didn't care to see him executed. i had seen enough dead people in my time. i didn't need to worry about him. >> the signal has come shortly after 7:00. >> that's it. that's it. ♪ >> ted is sort of the platinum standard for serial murder. basketball, there's michael jordan. there's babe ruth. and his in specialty, there's ted. ted offends the mind. he was as credible the young man as he could possibly be, looked good, spoke well, intelligent, all these things. and, yet, he was a pervert.

on the evidence he murdered girls, buried them dug them up and buried them again. he bashed in their skulls. he really was into it. it was his favorite thing to do. >> he didn't tell the truth. sure he told the truth about pieces of things. but there was so many things that he didn't tell the truth about. >> you never caused any physical harm to anyone? >> ever physically harmed anyone? no. no. you know, again, not in the context i think that you're speaking of.

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